But here is the great thing, when He has given you the gift of eternal life from above, you can't refuse it… You come willingly, as Jesus says "nobody comes to Me unless the Father grants them" John 6:65 and that’s a beautiful thing!
If you don't come its because you can't come and its still your fault, on the contrary, who are you O man to answer back to God! Romans 9:19, 20, 21, 22, 23
Calvin was not an Arminian nor was he a promoter of "common grace". The Latin translation of the word "offered" is closer to the English word "presented". God is not in heaven begging the wicked to be saved. When the Gospel is presented to the unconditionally elect they are then granted regeneration, repentance and conversion. When the Gospel is presented to the wicked reprobate they are left to rebel by their own sinful disposition and bondage of the will to sin. This too is God's sovereign decree to reprobation: Romans 1:18-32; Romans 9:11-13; 1 Peter 2:8; Acts 2:23; 4:27-28
It is true that the primary cause of their rejection is their own will. But that does not negate the fact that God ultimately chooses to reprobate prior to creation. (Ephesians 1:11; Romans 9:11-23; Proverbs 16:4; Exodus 9:16).
I'm just saying if He's chosen you, you're coming willingly, God's grace is efficacious. John 6:44 and if you don't come ( Willful Refusal) He hasn't chosen you and its still your fault, as the gospels say many are called but few are chosen.
I agree that there is a paradox here and we receive Christ, but its God who enables us to exercise that. have a great Lord's Day
Now we can open up a big can of worms on how to rightly interpret John 3:16 or I can just say John 3:16 is a promise for the believing ones (the whosoevers) and leave it at that.
PS: I did recently share a bit about my view of sovereignty and the problem of pain on my blog. (http://tinyurl.com/fallenWorldnotGod) Might help a bit in knowing where I am coming from?
Bob, you said "A gift that you can't refuse does not seem to fit the definition of a gift..."
If a woman drowned and I performed CPR and brought her back to life, I would be giving her the gift of life - even though she couldn't refuse.
I think we relate "gift" to birthday gifts or presents on special occasions, like a new TV or a pair of shoes.
We would do better equating "gift" (as it is mentioned in the Bible) to life - eternal life.
The Bible uses three metaphors for this gift of salvation.
A new creation - a new genesis - God alone creates in us this new heart...we can't "genesis" anything.
A new birth - literally, born from above. We didn't decide anything about our first birth and we didn't make our second one happen. God gets all the glory.
A resurrection. Lazarus didn't just decide to get up and hop out of the tomb. We were dead in sin - then God called us out.
Our gift of eternal life - and think about this for a second - was something we would not have said no to.
No. The elect come to Christ by His power. From OUR viewpoint we WANT Him more than anything and come willingly. The non-elect never come and are in a constant state of rejecting Christ. They are never willing because they are spiritually dead.
Thanks again Eddie. I think that you and I simply read the quote differently. Willful refusal (your wording) indicates to me that free will is involved.
Will IS involved. Self-centered, sinful will. After the fall, (think of Adam falling out of an airplane) man was free to do anything but fly up. He makes self-will choices all the time but, they all fallen choices, i.e. headed downward.
Adam's will did not escape the fall. He became a slave to sin and every sinner born has the same problem. It's our nature. And the natural man doesn't receive or compute the things of the Spirit.
That just might be right out of the word of God Eddie….
But the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.1 Corinthians 2:14
and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8:8, you must be born again, born from above. John 3:3
"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. Ezekiel 36:26
Only those born from above, can please God
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. John 6:37
Willful Refusal - I like that Eddie. Saying no to a gift means that the gift is not yours.
ReplyDeleteBut here is the great thing, when He has given you the gift of eternal life from above, you can't refuse it… You come willingly, as Jesus says "nobody comes to Me unless the Father grants them" John 6:65 and that’s a beautiful thing!
ReplyDeleteIf you don't come its because you can't come and its still your fault, on the contrary, who are you O man to answer back to God! Romans 9:19, 20, 21, 22, 23
Calvin was not an Arminian nor was he a promoter of "common grace". The Latin translation of the word "offered" is closer to the English word "presented". God is not in heaven begging the wicked to be saved. When the Gospel is presented to the unconditionally elect they are then granted regeneration, repentance and conversion. When the Gospel is presented to the wicked reprobate they are left to rebel by their own sinful disposition and bondage of the will to sin. This too is God's sovereign decree to reprobation: Romans 1:18-32; Romans 9:11-13; 1 Peter 2:8; Acts 2:23; 4:27-28
ReplyDeleteIt is true that the primary cause of their rejection is their own will. But that does not negate the fact that God ultimately chooses to reprobate prior to creation. (Ephesians 1:11; Romans 9:11-23; Proverbs 16:4; Exodus 9:16).
"when He has given you the gift of eternal life from above, you can't refuse it"
ReplyDeleteA gift that you can't refuse does not seem to fit the definition of a gift but is more like a government mandate that must be complied with.
KB
DeleteI'm just saying if He's chosen you, you're coming willingly, God's grace is efficacious. John 6:44 and if you don't come ( Willful Refusal) He hasn't chosen you and its still your fault, as the gospels say many are called but few are chosen.
I agree that there is a paradox here and we receive Christ, but its God who enables us to exercise that. have a great Lord's Day
How can it be the fault of a man if God has not chosen and enabled him?
DeleteBob read Romans 9:1-24
DeleteEddie where is the little green grenade when we need him?
BC read John 3:16.
DeleteJohn 3:16 the deadly kryptonite for a Calvinist!
ReplyDeleteNow we can open up a big can of worms on how to rightly interpret John 3:16 or I can just say John 3:16 is a promise for the believing ones (the whosoevers) and leave it at that.
Again have a great Lord's day Bob
Have a great day BC!
DeletePS: I did recently share a bit about my view of sovereignty and the problem of pain on my blog. (http://tinyurl.com/fallenWorldnotGod) Might help a bit in knowing where I am coming from?
ReplyDeleteBob, you said "A gift that you can't refuse does not seem to fit the definition of a gift..."
ReplyDeleteIf a woman drowned and I performed CPR and brought her back to life, I would be giving her the gift of life - even though she couldn't refuse.
I think we relate "gift" to birthday gifts or presents on special occasions, like a new TV or a pair of shoes.
We would do better equating "gift" (as it is mentioned in the Bible) to life - eternal life.
The Bible uses three metaphors for this gift of salvation.
A new creation - a new genesis - God alone creates in us this new heart...we can't "genesis" anything.
A new birth - literally, born from above. We didn't decide anything about our first birth and we didn't make our second one happen. God gets all the glory.
A resurrection. Lazarus didn't just decide to get up and hop out of the tomb. We were dead in sin - then God called us out.
Our gift of eternal life - and think about this for a second - was something we would not have said no to.
Thanks Eddie. Are you disagreeing with the Calvin quote by giving examples of a person who could not refuse?
DeleteNo. The elect come to Christ by His power. From OUR viewpoint we WANT Him more than anything and come willingly.
DeleteThe non-elect never come and are in a constant state of rejecting Christ. They are never willing because they are spiritually dead.
Thanks again Eddie. I think that you and I simply read the quote differently. Willful refusal (your wording) indicates to me that free will is involved.
DeleteWill IS involved. Self-centered, sinful will.
DeleteAfter the fall, (think of Adam falling out of an airplane) man was free to do anything but fly up. He makes self-will choices all the time but, they all fallen choices, i.e. headed downward.
Adam's will did not escape the fall. He became a slave to sin and every sinner born has the same problem. It's our nature. And the natural man doesn't receive or compute the things of the Spirit.
DeleteThat just might be right out of the word of God Eddie….
DeleteBut the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.1 Corinthians 2:14
and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8:8, you must be born again, born from above. John 3:3
"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. Ezekiel 36:26
Only those born from above, can please God
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. John 6:37
and that’s a beautiful thing!