You have to admit...he DOES look better in a mask!
Who doesn't? Even Ron Perlman looks better in a mask!
I just finished reading Phil Johnson's article. It took a while, but it was well worth the time spent. To paraphrase R.C. Sproul: I would never call Finney a "heretic," Finney was an ARCH-HERETIC.I think the most disturbing thing about this is the the echoes of Finney's "theology" in todays "evangelical" circles. And I am sure that it has not escaped your notice, Eddie, that those who have published scathing articles and books denouncing Calvinism and Reformed Theology (including evangelist Mark Cahill, Dave Hunt and David Cloud) use the same arguments that Finney did.This is making me re-think the issue of joint eforts of Reformed and non-Reformed Christians "setting aside their doctrinal differences" in order to unite together to reach the lost with the Gospel. What if those "doctrinal differences" define the true Gospel vs. a false gospel?Sorry to go on like this, but Phil's article really stirred me up.Craig
Looks like a Halloween costume idea to me, except that it might frighten the Reformed folks at church. I could hear them now:"Jim's crossed over!""He's regressed!""We might as well be looking at a bloody mess.""The horror of it all!""Why couldn't he have come as Spurgeon instead?"The shock could send some of the older folks to the hospital. ...not worth the risk.
Stranger: "This is making me re-think the issue of joint eforts of Reformed and non-Reformed Christians..."I hope more people do re-think that issue.
Craig (aka S.S.L), I've been thinking along the same lines. I actually got into trouble at my church about 6 months ago because I refused to go to a prayer thing...purely on the basis that there were Roman Catholics and men...and it was called the "womens world day of prayer something something". "But we must be ecumenical!" I was told.I won't stand for the Gospel being dragged through the mud. I am more than happy to socialize with people of different religions but I won't worship with them nor will I lead men.I'd also like to add that one only needs to look Finney in the eyes to know something isn't right :-PSpurgeon was homely and kind looking. And much more eloquent!
@PatienceYes, and I used to be a member of a Presbyterian (USA) church that celebrated an annual Thanksgiving Eve service with a Roman Catholic church. It was called a "One-ness Celebration." One of our pastors, [we had three] stopped participating in it after I shared with him a recording and writtten transcript of the (then) recently formulated Cambridge Declaration. I like ecumenical, btw, especially the way Ligonier and the WHI guys do it : )I was thinking of the recent rift between Mark Cahill and Way of the Master ministries. Although Ray Comfort is non-committal about his own leaning, at least publicly, most of his close staff (Tony Miano, Trish Ramos, Mark Spence, Todd Friel, and I think Emeal Zwayne. and Kirk Cameron) are solidly Reformed.Until recently the two ministries have enjoyed mutual support. Now, Cahill says that he can not have fellowship with anyone who believes in the "5 Points" (Doctrines of Grace) because they worship a "different God" and preach a "different gospel." Tony Miano made a valiant effort at a reconciliation. He even stopped referring to himself as a "Calvinist," because the "label" caused unnecessary division between brothers and sisters in Christ. I think the Arminian, Mark Cahill may have been on to something though, with his remark about a "different gospel."Craig
Definitely a Super Villain.
@Craig,"I like ecumenical, btw, especially the way Ligonier and WHI guys do it :)" - Ditto. From what I've heard they're solid."Although Ray Comfort is non-committal about his own leaning, at least publicly, most of his close staff (Tony Miano, Trish Ramos, Mark Spence, Todd Friel, and I think Emeal Zwayne. and Kirk Cameron) are solidly Reformed." - I was of the same understanding. I've never really heard much about Mark Cahill."I think the Arminian, Mark Cahill may have been on to something though, with his remark about a "different gospel."" - do you mean that our Gospel is often different from the Arminian one? I have to ask: Is the Arminian "gospel" even Biblical? I suppose a bit.But is a half truth the truth at all? Or could it be classified as deception.I do a rough version of WOTM normally so I guess I do speak "turn or burn" but with an adequate reason for why. :-PPatience
do you mean that our Gospel is often different from the Arminian one? I have to ask: Is the Arminian "gospel" even Biblical? I suppose a bit.Well, if we are talking about what is commonly referred to as "a public gospel presentation," an Arminian and a Calvinist can preach an identical message. What the preacher believes about the extent of the atonement or the basis of election need not be mentioned at that point. He is declaring what Christ has done, and summoning sinners to repent and believe in Christ crucified. J.I. Packer says, "The Gospel is not, 'Believe that Christ died for everybody's sins, and therefore for yours,' any more than it is, 'Believe that Christ died only for certain people's sins, and so perhaps not for yours.' " (pg. 69, Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God, I.V.P.)The point of departure comes when the whole counsel of God is taught in the church (and consequently by the head of the household to his family). Justification solely by grace, through faith, because of Christ, to the Glory of God Alone is clearly a different Gospel than salvation based on the free-will decision of the wretched sinner. That is what dissolved the evangelistic partnership of Wesley and Whitefield.(Mark Cahill said when he was denouncing the "doctrines of Grace" that his gospel is "Choose you this day whom you will serve.") Craig B
...on a lighter note...Hey, even Batman had a darkside...and......You don't know the power of the darkside.
aaah I understand now Craig :-)Thanks for filling me in on all of that.Patience
Charles finney won souls that's all that matters, and besides he has done more than you ALL!
I am grateful that CC's sidebar posts "recent comments" on archived posts.And "thank you" to fire999 for reminding me of that (Oct. 2010) post, but especially of Phil Johnson's article which is linked to there. I just read it through, again.(I have no idea whether fire999 is really and truly a Finney admirer, or one of Eddie's characters that just leaped off the side-bar of "Arminian Antics" :)
I didn't make him up. He's a real Finney fan - like Benny!